The Integration Forum: Your Questions Answered

In this Episode of Psychology & the Soul, Dr. Shirley Impellizzeri and spiritual medium Kellee White return with another powerful edition of The Integration Forum — a space where psychology and spirituality meet to explore the real questions people are asking about healing and personal transformation.

This episode dives into listener-submitted questions about trauma recovery, anxiety, grief, emotional regulation, spiritual awakening, attachment wounds, and relationship challenges. Together, Dr. Shirley and Kellee bring both clinical psychology and intuitive spiritual insight to the conversation, offering grounded perspectives and practical guidance.

Rather than quick fixes or spiritual bypassing, this discussion focuses on true integration — understanding how the nervous system, emotional healing, and spiritual growth work together in the process of transformation.

If you're navigating trauma, experiencing anxiety, processing grief, awakening spiritually, or trying to understand patterns in your relationships, this episode offers thoughtful insight designed to support your healing journey.

In this episode, we explore:

• Trauma and nervous system healing
• Anxiety and emotional regulation
• Grief, loss, and the healing process
• Spiritual awakening and personal transformation
• Attachment wounds and relationship dynamics
• Integrating psychology and spirituality in everyday life

Psychology & the Soul is a space for honest conversations about mental health, spiritual growth, trauma healing, and conscious relationships — where science and soul work together to help you better understand yourself and your path forward.

#SpiritualBypassing #PsychologyAndTheSoul #MentalHealth #TraumaHealing

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Hi, everybody. Welcome to Psychology and the Soul. I am Spiritual Medium and Psychotherapist Kelly White.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

And I'm Dr. Shirley. Hi, everybody.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

And today we're really excited because we are going to be answering your questions.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Yes, we are.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

We appreciate them. And so we should just start on off with the questions. What do you think, Gerald?

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Good. We got a lot of wonderful questions. So let's just.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

And you know, we just want to acknowledge that these are very challenging times. So we really appreciate all of your questions and all of your love and support from all of this. Yes. For us. We really appreciate it. So we're going to start with the first question. I mean, there were several questions, you guys. Thank you so much. The first question, Shirley, we're going to talk about is we're going to call this question fear, basically. How do you stop your brain from always thinking the worst is going to happen? And what causes this, Shirley?

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Ah, well, this is a tough one. Yeah. Because, you know, there's no fix to it on a permanent unless you do ongoing stuff, and we'll get into that in a moment. But it's there, you know, and it's part of it is the negativity bias of the brain that's always looking for the negative stuff because that's how the species survived, is by figuring out how to get through bad things. The good things we don't care, they didn't save our lives. So that is just part of our neurobiology. And then when you grew up in a in a childhood that felt a little chaotic, felt chaotic, then as an adult, you're gonna be anxious. You're gonna, it's called catastroph uh catastrophizing, you know. And what it really is, if we look at, if we peel it, what it really is, is your brain preparing you for the worst, so you can be ready. Which of course, when the worst isn't happening, it's annoying, you know, because you're always thinking that and you're ruminating with your thoughts and stuff. Um so so there's you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of tools to use. And well, I'm curious, Kelly, from a uh from a spiritual perspective, what explanation would you have when the brain is always going into fear?

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Well, you know, spiritually, we come to break old habits, we come to stop old habits. So we would be put into a family or a situation that would come in for us spiritually to look at fear. Now I can tell you this that when I I was always anxious. I was always, always anxious as a kid. I came out of the womb anxious, I was anxious, I would have huge panic attacks where I would, my whole body would freeze up and I would literally become paralyzed. I mean, I had horrific anxiety my whole life. I was on medication for anxiety. I I just was always in an I was always anxious. And then the weirdest thing happened after I had my head injury, I had my traumatic brain injury, and I lost everything. So I lost everything. I lost my career, my daughter, my home, my relationship, I lost everything. In fact, I wrote a book about it. Um, I lost everything, and in that losing of everything, which must have been my worst fear, like what if this happens, or what if this happens? Well, when the worst thing happened, talk about catastrophizing, it actually happened. The damnedest thing happened to me. I didn't die. And the other part about that is because people have such fear of death, is I always knew, or at that time I really discovered after my head injury that there was no such thing as death because I saw I had a pretty much a near-death experience, so I understood that there was no such thing as death. So, what was I anxious about? The worst had happened, I'd lost everything, and here I am. And from that moment on, I did not have any anxiety. It was years later and only recently that I had some anxiety, and it was about my grandchildren and getting worried, and that's a human experience, but it was um situational. So, as far as the and that's there's a difference between surely between a constant anxiety and then a situational anxiety.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Absolutely, absolutely, because all emotions serve a purpose. If we didn't feel anxious once in a while, we wouldn't motivate to prepare for something. You know, like we get anxious when we're in school before a test. Yes, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

I'd be anxious, I was gonna be late, or I'd be anxious, and there's always something.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Which the anxiety of being late would get you there on time, and so it serves a very valuable purpose. However, too much of it, of course, immobilizes us and it does, and then you think I've got you've got to work and you've got to see people and you've got to do this.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

How so how what are some tips to at least slow the brain down?

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Well, there's some tips. I mean, certainly, you know, the infamous words that I don't know who came up with, which you know, we we joke in my somatic classes, which you know, to tell somebody to relax, yeah, like the dumbest thing ever.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Ever.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Oh, because of, as I've always said, the connection between the brain, the nerve that connects the brain and the body, called the bonus nerve. 20% of it connects the brain to the body, 80% the information flows from the body to the brain. And so telling yourself to relax, or that you know, it's a silly thought or whatever, isn't it? If your shoulders are up here, usually when we're anxious, our shoulders are up here. So really move them down very purposefully and even exaggerating up slowly, and then bringing them down slowly, and that can feel relaxing to the body.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

But it also makes you conscious, which is a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Yes, absolutely. It puts you into the here grounding, noticing your feet on the ground, noticing the earth, how the earth supports your foot, how the gravity supports your foot on the ground, holds you in that sitting in a chair, holds you in that sitting position. So really tune into your body. That can be very helpful. You know, naming it um activates your rational brain and can reduce the intention, the the emotional intensity of the anxiety.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

So, what would naming it look like?

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Like I'm anxious at this moment, you know.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

You know, um, whatever it makes.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Right. So it gives you a little bit of space between you and the thought, and then you realize, okay, it's just a thought. And that can create a little bit of space. Um, because all thoughts aren't real, you know, they're not based in reality. And uh sometimes, you know, and your mom taught me this with grieving, you can set a worry window, like 15 minutes a day from 8 to 8:15. That's when I'm gonna worry. So then when worry shows up during the day, you're like, nope, saving it for eight o'clock, you know, whatever time, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:33

My mother used to say 2:30. At 2:30, from 2:30 to 3 o'clock, you can be anxious. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Right, right. Or you can grieve. Or grieve. Yeah. Yeah. So that can again, these are tools to help throughout the day. They're not gonna take it out, you know, they're not gonna reduce your anxiety from a permanent standpoint necessarily in that moment. So if you jump back into anxiety, don't say, Oh, that didn't work. It did, because in that moment that you reduced it for that moment, that was just as real as the next moment.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

It's a process, everybody. It is a process, you know. We'll talk about meditation in the next couple of questions. But yeah, yeah, there are a lot of other things that we're gonna talk about today that will lead to this because ultimately fear on earth is a is a real thing. It's fear and love. It's kind of an interesting dynamic, isn't it, Shirley?

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Yeah, yeah, it's really kind of it, it is, it's something.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

I mean, it all falls under the category of know thyself. So if you know, I get anxious, this makes me anxious. Think like in those terms, okay, this makes me anxious, and then do one of Shirley's tips for name entertainment, what's going on now, because you're becoming more conscious.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Right, exactly, exactly. The voo sound, you know, which I've shown in other programs where you take a deep breath and you make the sound that the um, you know, the the uh docks in the bay, the ships that would come in. And you really feel it coming from your diaphragm that relaxes the diaphragm and it relaxes the whole the whole body, but humming can really help. That's a good one too, to just hum.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

You know, it's funny you would say that because I've seen anxious people humming. So is that like a natural form that they're naturally trying to calm?

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Yeah, it's almost like their body just naturally is doing that.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Yeah, like the body wants to calm down.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Exactly, exactly. Taking short walks when you take a walk to do was you know, do it with mindfulness. In other words, you're not walking and thinking, you're walking and putting your attention out there. Oh, look at that tree. What how many shades of green does that tree have? Or count the trees as you're walking by, or the flowers, you know, that kind of thing. Um, you know what a great one is is cold water. I take a cold uh shower every morning. You do? Yes, I do, and it is not easy. It is not easy. Wow, but I just count two, I go three, two, one, and I get in, and it is shocking. It's shocking to the body. And sometimes I scream, I will admit that. I scream sometimes, but cold water triggers the dive reflex, which activates the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the part of the nervous system that is about rest and digest. So it shifts from fight or flight, which is what anxiety is, to rest and digest. It triggers the release of mood uh regulating neurotransmitters like dopamine and which reduce stress to increase alertness and interrupt the anxious cycles.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

So it interrupts the state. So for all of us that live in uh the Midwest or on the East Coast, particularly right now, it's like minus 20 or 20 degrees or whatever. It's cold. So is that the same idea? Is that the same principle that I can go outside?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Go outside and stand there, exactly. And don't get too bundled up, right? But stand there so you can feel the cold.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

The intense immediate right.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

I mean, they do say water, so I don't know if water makes a difference, especially, you know, I've seen where you put your face in a bowl of ice water, right? Or ice water back here can be really helpful. What it does is the intense immediate sensation forces the brain to focus on the present moment, so it instantly interrupts the anxious obsessive thoughts. Wow, these are really, really so that can be really, really helpful. And know that, you know, if you have pervasive anxiety and pervasive fear, and more often than not, we can tie it to childhood, then ongoing therapy, you know, really working at it to heal those trauma wounds.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

It's gonna fall under the the know thyself. So you would be working on your trauma wounds. I had a mother that was this, I had a father that did this, and it really is important stuff to work on.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Absolutely, and it's not about blame, it's to understand, so I don't feel so weird. Like, why am I like this? Well, there's a very valid reason why I may not like it and I want to change it, and that's where we as adults now our work comes in. We can understand where it came from, it's not about blaming, but then we're responsible for doing our own work, you know. And what you've said, Kelly, too, is when you hit your head, you started meditating, and a meditation practice, and I don't mean it's gonna happen overnight, but you even said, you know, Dr. Hamlin, the doctor we used to see, said your brain was different, and it really changes the brain. A lot of research shows that, but it's it's you know, consistent daily practice ongoing.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Well, in that's a question that we're gonna let's talk about that right now, Shirley, because it kind of falls into that question, which is okay, somebody had asked this question of me, and it was what are your personal spiritual practices that have benefited me um most to grow into who I've become? Yeah. So it so again, if we take this, that I was always anxious, was always anxious, then I have a head injury, and I was forced because nobody would be around me. It was I I literally was almost forced into isolation. And going into isolation, I learned the technique of meditating, and I learned guided meditations, and at some point I followed a guru just to help me with understanding meditation. But here's what happened: I went now, I don't expect everybody to do this, but I would meditate for hours in a day, eight to ten hours in one day, and it would be very consistent. And you have to remember, I was isolated, I was this was literally the door that was open for me to do. So I just followed suit. I just went in and I would meditate. Guided meditations, guided started that way, and then ultimately I can meditate without a guided meditation. But what happened is that meditation changed my brain. And why do we meditate? We don't just meditate to be with the spirit and all that. It's way more than that. We meditate to change our brain waves, we meditate to change our brain waves to slow us down enough so we're not anxious and we can make good choices. Making good choices is everything. So, yes, Shirley, I did, as you know, I had my brain, I had every EKG um or EEG, I should say. No, EKG. Uh, oh, every six months I would have one. So they would follow my brain waves, they would track them. And our doctor, Dr. Hamlin, Emery, would uh track my brain waves. And at one point he said, Wow, you've got the brain, your brain is almost entirely in theta. You've got the brain waves of a monk. What are you doing? And what I was doing was this meditation every day. So it's important because when you practice it, it slows you down. So we can consider this the beginning of a spiritual awakening. So which is what is happening in the world. The world is full of chaos. Many of us are going into spiritual awakening. Many people are. In my case, I had a sudden awakening and had to figure all of this out. You don't have to do that. I've already done it. It's to go slow now to so be curious, as you would say, Charlie, be curious. And one of the things of my spiritual practice, what course meditation is number one. But another one, see all these books behind me? I started inhaling books. Somebody asked me recently if I read all of them. Yes, I did. I am, I became obsessed. I was reading, my mom couldn't, she couldn't believe how many books I was reading, you know, a week. I would read five books a week. Remember, I was isolated, had all the time in the world. But here's the thing: what I would do: I would pick up books like this, and these are important ones, and I took these out because I think they're important. Anything by Silver Birch, um, which is guidance from Silver Birch, any of the Silver Birch, because they're spiritual awakening books. There's they your soul will resonate to these books. They will, it will, they will resonate. Your souls will resonate. This one, The Path of the Soul. Uh, these are books that are they go right into the system here. They go right into the system. Oh, wow. Any of the books by Dr. Michael uh Newton, which this is I happen to have in front of me, it was Journey of Souls, but he also wrote Life Between Lives. So you start getting curious about all of the books that are out there. If you go to my website, Kellywhite.com, I have a list of books uh on that I would recommend for everybody. Read my book, uh Cracked Open. I I talk about you know this awakening process. So when you start awakening process, it becomes a spiritual path. Or you have spiritual, you start to become curious about spirituality. And spirituality is not a religion, it is just an awakening that there's something more out there, and it really is to be compassionate for yourself, good to yourself, kind to yourself. Understand that you went through a lot of wounds. Yes, you did with great intention before we incarnate. We're gonna choose the family that'll bring up the most wounds for us, so then we can heal through everything, through love and compassion for ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

That's wonderful. And I love what you said, Kelly, about in the beginning you did guided meditations because so many people who can't meditate or get their mind gets distracted when they try to sit and feel like a shit.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

You're fighting. There's nothing wrong with you. The guided meditations are the best. You can get them online, uh, you can get them, they're free online. Just do any of that. You can listen to uh James Jan Prague has some great guided meditations. Uh, I know I have some on my on my, I don't think it's on my website, but maybe it is. You can check, but on my daily app, I have an app that people can use, and I have them on that. But guided meditations are important because they give the brain a place to go.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Because you're in a highly anxious state, then you get more anxious. I can't meditate. And then James, I love what James will say, he'll say, you know, like driving is a meditation or walking dishes is a meditation. But in my case, and I do believe that, but what I think is way more important, I mean, that's fine, but to set the intention, you're going to go into that. Set the intention, and because you're starting a spiritual awareness path, so it's all important. You are growing and changing. Congratulations. Yeah, so that's that's how I that's my spiritual practice.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

That's wonderful, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Doesn't that make sense, Shirley?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Another question we had, which is know thyself. How do you keep yourself out of the chaos and not follow or observe observe say absorb others' energy in a world of turmoil?

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Okay, well, I would that's a tough one, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Again, know thyself, know your triggers. If you have a family, you're gonna have some different uh thoughts politically that throw you, spend less time, know that they're on their own path, you're on your own path. Everybody's on their own path. Yeah, yeah. The world is designed at this time for great chaos, great chaos. I mean, great chaos. So as my so funny, the medit the gal that I followed, this meditate with this guru, she would make us uh meditate in the middle of Times Square. We could meditate in the middle of anywhere. It's the truth, truth, girl. That's true. Because she would say, Do you think you're gonna go into a cave and do this? You are not, and as nutty as she was, she was right on this.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

That is so true.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

I can be, I mean, I came from chaos, I was born into a chaos family. So for me, it's a natural state, but the the important part was that I learned to be centered and calm in the middle of chaos, and you can do it too.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Now you came into a family that was there was no chaos. Is that right, Shirley?

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Oh yeah, no, it was it was uh one of my therapists describing as an emotional desert. Nobody would talk, everybody was there, so there was no kind of uh latchkey situation, but nobody spoke, everybody was kind of doing their own thing. Yeah, yeah. So there was emotional neglect. That's that's you know how I would term it. Um, but uh but yeah, so there was no chaos. So I got used to going into myself, and of course, that back then as a survival skill was dissociating, you know, and and being a Pisces also I daydream. And so I used to be out in the world visiting Tahiti or wherever I wanted to go.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

So that's how you survived.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

I mean, isn't it interesting? We all find coping skills. Absolutely. That's another we're beginning with.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

That's another thing to be, you know, so we can be compassionate with ourselves is to know that everything that we developed was was adaptive, was to help adapt to our environment in the best way possible. And a lot of times those adaptive skills, we call it survival skills, start to work against us as adults. And that's why then we go to therapy to try and you know help us heal those wounds so we don't have to use those adaptive skills, but they were adaptive.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

And and bravo, you did you you figured it out. Now you have to unfigure it out. Exactly. Yeah, you have to undo that, which kind of goes with the next question, Shirley, which is a woman wrote it. And she said, I grew up in a home with strict religious beliefs. Now I know a lot of people out there have. She said, uh, with the Bible. She says, so how does somebody become not confused about spirituality and religion? Spiritual reality, spirituality and religion are very different. I mean, religion is a belief structure, it's an old concept belief structure that keeps us uh controlled, frankly, if you ask me. I think it just does. Um, however, spirituality is open. It's about love and compassion, it's about knowing myself.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Yeah, the way I see it too, it's about acceptance. You know, it's about acceptance of yourself, acceptance of others, right? Religion, if you don't believe what I believe, right, not accepted. And I never, you know, as a kid, again, my kind of sprectum brain, I never understood that. If God was taught to be nice and benevolent, loving and stuff, then why wouldn't why would he care if someone's gay, or why would he care? You know, I just didn't understand how the two would go together.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Well, I really got confused because, you know, my parent, my father was Jewish, and my mother was Southern Baptist, and my grandmother was Jehovah's Witness, and we grew up in a canary of all Catholics. And uh very confused. I would look at this and go, these people are ridiculous. And everyone, every one of them, I have to say, the big standout was my grandmother, the Jehovah's Witness, that was a little further out there. And one of my best friends was Marmon. I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Oh my god. You you had the whole gamut.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

I had the gamut. I had the gamut. You had the whole gamut. The beauty of it is I could see the hypocrisy in all of them. It and it just was just ridiculous. Now, I did well, I'll tell you what I did love. I loved with the Catholics and with the Jewish, I loved the um the the the like the uh the this I don't know, some what do we call it, the the beauty of it, of some of it was like we would, you know, like families would get together and they would the connection piece. I actually love that piece of the thing. Well that's that's really the religion.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

I thought that was just dumb. Right, right. The the it it causes people to feel connected with one another. That's what I love. That's a that's a beautiful part of religion of religion, of being part of. Yeah, the the problem is when you when you believe too much and you get too, you know, and believe everything they say. And let's say, you know, um, in the I remember having a huge argument with my boyfriend who at the time who was uh born again and we were Catholic.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

I didn't even add that one.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

I know, and we were watching a show and they were interviewing this priest, and it said, um, a homosexual priest or whatever. And he said, Ha ha, well, that's not. And I said, Why? What's wrong with that? And he went and he grabbed his Bible to show me where it says homosexuality is condemned to hell. And I said, Well, then why would you believe something like that? Why would you? This is you know, what if a person is nice and kind? Oh my gosh. Just because of so that's the part that I think gets people in trouble because then you you some people have rejected their own children.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

No, because absolutely, and then think of the karma and all the nonsense that goes.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Right, right. But the connection, the camaraderie, that is very because we're we're you know, we're hardwired to be in connection with people. Yeah, and so that's the part that feels really good.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

I love that part of it. That part I love, yeah, until I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Right, right. Yeah, until I didn't, then I didn't get enough. It's funny because I uh started to be not practice religion. And when Sid was little and my daughter was little, she goes, Mom, what are we? And I said, You know what? If people ask you, we're spiritual. That's what we are, that's our religion, we're spiritual.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Okay, so and imagine how screwed up it was in my house because my Jewish grandmother was, you're Jewish, and my Southern Baptist grandmother was like, You're Southern Baptist. I'm like, I'm what? I'm what? Oh, it was hilarious. The fights that went on were just that could be another book just on that.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

So, all right, Shirley, let's talk about another question that we asked, which is a really good one, which is setting boundaries. So somebody says, I try to explain how I feel, and they make me feel small, and they try to invalidate how I'm feeling. I think they're the problem. So I think the question basically is you know, when people try to make you feel small, why would you even be around somebody like that?

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Well, that's exactly it. You know, if someone continuously tells you who they are by, you know, by being critical of you or by being trying to make you less than or intelligent you. Exactly, exactly. Then the question comes back to you, okay, why am I hanging around this person? Right. Yeah, and of course, if it's a family member, someone that you kind of have to, that's where then boundaries come in. How close do I want to be with this person? How often do I want to speak with them? How much do I want to engage with them?

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Believe who they are.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Right, right. Take them at face value. And if they cause you to feel a certain way, no one can cause us to feel any way other than if we take it in. So while it doesn't feel good if a family member or a friend says something mean, right? But if you believe what they're saying, then that again is something for you to look at and to because you may be believing it yourself. And that's why then exactly.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

You don't want to take out that introject, we call that.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

No, take out all the negativity that they're putting on to you.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Yeah, so thanks, Shirley. That's a good one. Setting boundaries. Okay, so another question. A woman writes, I've always had gifts and I'm spiritual, but I have never felt comfortable in this world, and I've never felt like I belong here. Now, Shirley, we you and I could probably talk at length for this, but yeah, uh for me, and I'll start this one, Shirley, and then you please go into this. But for me, I always define that as uh somebody who's a starseed or intergalactic, they're not from around here, but they wanted to be here on Earth at this time, and a lot of people feel this way.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

I know you do.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

You're not alone.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

It just feels like this isn't home. You know, there's something unfamiliar about it kind of as extensionally, not so much my home and my, you know, my family members and that kind of stuff, but kind of like is it in general? And you're the first one that told me that. And then I had someone who um who I had a reading with, and she goes, Oh, you're not from here. You're pleased, you're Palladian, I think. She said, You're a starseed, and that's exactly what you had told me years before.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Years before.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

And it kind of, you know, again, it helps in that, okay, just put a balance into it. It's not me. Yeah, right. There's a reason why I feel this way. And we can believe that or not, you know, but there's there's a reason why I feel this way.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

And many, many people felt like feel like they don't belong here.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Yeah, but there's a school. Just remember, it's one school of a zillion schools. We just happen to be here at this school at this time. But it's an it's an important school because you learn a lot about yourself. And again, that falls into know thyself. Who are you? What do you like? I always think of that uh movie uh Runaway Bride. Remember that movie Runaway Bride? Um and and at one point they said she had all these different boyfriends and whatever, and they said if she if they liked the eggs the way you know they liked the fried, she liked them fried. If they liked them hard-boiled, she liked them hard-boiled. She didn't know herself. And then after all the nonsense in this movie, she was like, I like the eggs this way. She learns to speak up. So learn to speak up, everybody. I think that's really important. Know themselves.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Yeah, to set boundaries, that that wasn't a nice thing to say, or ooh, that didn't make me feel good.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Oh, right. You know, kind of goodness. Yeah. So here's a question, Shirley. And this I'm gonna call this uh compassion and teachers, but here's the question. This is a question about emotional maturity and intelligence. Is it possible that autism can have certain traits that present as emotional immaturity? We'll answer that. And then how does the soul integrate with the mind that we can have compassion as we navigate loving someone that is communicating with us with these traits? So, Cheryl, of course, it is possible that autism they do have certain traits that present as emotional immaturity. For me, it goes back to they're not from around here, they're just not. Souls that are intergalactic souls. And I view this as everybody is a teacher and for us. So they would be great teachers for you to learn compassion and also to teach them possibly how to be on earth. You could be a great teacher to them. You have to develop a lot of um, well, a lot of compassion, but you also have to develop a lot of patience and just understand. You know, um, I met somebody recently and I was describing her as quirky, but I just fell in love with her. She was as quirky, AF, as they say. But I just fell in love with her. I love the quirks. I just have this, I don't know. Yeah, I just love that.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Yeah, they, you know, the presenters emotional immature, sometimes even on the narcissistic spectrum, because they don't have the connections between social um cues, cues, exactly. Thank you. Social cues aren't fully there without getting too technical. But and and so they just don't get it. They just don't get it. My dad was uh autistic, and he would get up and walk away in the middle of a conversation. Oh, we had the same father on some level, yeah, and you would just feel so, you know, and it was because he thought of something that he forgot to do and didn't and didn't do he didn't mean anything, he would take the shirt off his back for you, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

But but you had to learn that, you had to figure that one out. It was only in therapy that I was able to figure that out because I thought it was, of course, as a child, you're gonna take it personally. It's me, I'm not loving enough, I'm not lovable or but it's it's partly it's understanding that, and so know that if you're interacting with someone like that, know that and get those needs met from someone else if you can.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Right, right, yeah. But it can present as autism certainly can present as emotionally stunted.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Absolutely, absolutely, because in a way, I mean, we can say they are in a way, the connection's never fully connected.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

You know, some people here have on earth have a high EQ, a high emotional quotient. I always had a higher EQ than IQ, I think. And I think EQ gets you pretty far if you have a strong EQ. Now, when you're talking on somebody on the spectrum, they probably have less of an EQ there, less of an emotional quotient.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Right, right, right. But it's not out of the important thing is to understand that it's not out of being malicious.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

You know, it's not because they don't care, it just doesn't occur to them. Yeah, yeah, that's different again than narcissism. Narcissism is a very different piece. In this case, it just doesn't occur to them because they just don't, you know, it just doesn't. It just doesn't sometimes, you know. I've as as you shared with me, I'm on the spectrum, and sometimes things just don't occur to me. But if someone says, hey, you know, it would feel good if you did that, oh, okay. And I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

It just you and I've had many battles over this, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:55

It just doesn't occur to me. But I would do it in a second if it did.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Right, right. Yeah, we have a good friend that's gonna be on our show who's autistic uh for autism awareness month in April, and uh we had to point out certain things with her, and not in a negative way, it's just we had to point certain things out. Yeah, oh, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Right. Okay, but again, she was in a place to hear it, so you know it it all and of course it's how you do it, your prosody, the tone of voice can put someone's nervous system into a defensive mode or can keep them calm, the words that you use, the speed that you speak in, so many things come into play.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Loving kindness, practice it. Yeah, love that's spiritual. Oh my gosh. Well, Cheryl, here's here's a question for us, and then we'll go into the next question. But we're gonna call this a question betrayal. Somebody writes and said, I am now divorced from a narcissist. You're speaking about narcissists. There we go. Uh, he lives in another state. Okay. Should my adult daughter have a relationship with him now that he cheated on me and does everything bad? Shirtle, you go for that one.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Well, if it's an adult daughter, I would let her make that choice. Because, you know, um it is her father, and from a child perspective, we see it different than from a spouse perspective as far as how that narcissism is um felt and interpreted. And um, and yes, cheating is a betrayal to the whole family, but it's gonna feel less coming from the perspective of a child than a spouse. And so I would really encourage you to let your daughter, maybe with your guidance, but let her uh choose and decide what kind of relationship she wants with her father, and which will change and which will vary through the because ultimately she'll figure it out if she hasn't already.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Right. She'll figure it out, and then once she figures it out, you know, then it's a whole different ballgame. But also, what a narcissist tends to do is they will uh triangulate, so they'll try to take her, so you know, then you'll be out the one left out, and it's a whole series of emotions. So you take care of you right now, you take care of yourself right now, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

And being consistent with how you are with her, I wouldn't say negative things about dad, but I would be, I would mirror if he he does something that wasn't, you know, that was hurtful, mirror that, of course. Um but uh and also you know, you've taught me, Kelly, that a child chooses their parents.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

We choose our family on the other side. So whatever your daughter is learning right now or trying to learn, or she'll get there. It's always out of balance, and then the swing comes to balance at some point. I'll never forget when uh my own daughter said to me, Who is a psychologist? Wow, mom, you were right. Oh, that's right, you live for those words. Right, right. That's a terrible thing to say, but it's true, Cheryl. So you'll get there, dear reader, you'll dear listener, you'll get there.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would just let her, you know, and maybe she needs, you know, she most likely will need guidance of a therapist, but I would I would encourage her to get guidance. I wouldn't try to decide what relationship she should have with her father because you're carrying your own pain and your own hurt.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Absolutely. And one thing about a therapist, she'll hit this, he or she will hear the story and immediately know narcissism here. Here we go. Oh, okay. Let's get on the show. A good one will know that.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Oh my gosh. So, surely, here's a question for you. When trauma, what happens when trauma dysregulates your life? So you've had a tremendous amount of trauma, lots of trauma here, and you are dysregulated. What happens to this?

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Well, what do you mean by what happens? I mean, you are with with coming from trauma, if you haven't healed it, you will feel dysregulated. Okay. You know, you'll be either in anxiety or you might be in depression, which is kind of a shutting down of everything. And it's really, I mean, doing the work, going to therapy, finding a good therapist that works somatically. I would really encourage that because we hold everything in our body, you know, especially when we come from like pre-verbal trauma, you know, even while we're in the womb, but afterwards, zero to two, we have a sense that babies don't remember things because they can't speak. But who holds those memories is the body, right? You know, and so the body will always hold the memories, and so it's so important to deal with it and and use regulating techniques to regulate your body, like the ones we talked about initially. You know, the boo sound, the grounding, the um walking in nature, all those things petting your dog. Exactly. All those things help to regulate your nervous system. It's not, it's never, you know, it's never a downfall like this when you're dysregulated, all of a sudden you get to regulation. It's like this. But that moment where you were a little more regulated started to stimulate other parts of your brain. Absolutely. You know, and so that's an important piece. And know what your triggers are, know what causes more dysregulation. That's an important piece.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Well, and the rest of this question is a comment, and she says, I'm grateful to get to this point in my life where I am curious, to quote you, Shirley, and I do notice my triggers, and hopefully I'm able to regulate myself and find joy. 100% you will.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Absolutely. Right, right. And what I've said, you know, many times is the neuroscientists, excuse me, have a saying, name it to tame it. So when you notice your triggers, you can go, wow, I just got triggered. What am I feeling? And then be curious. What am I feeling? I'm feeling angry. I feel like I want to close down, or I feel like, you know, and just and notice that.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Right. It's a constant, it's a constant, right, Shirley? Right. It's always be aware. That's why we say be mindful, be in the moment. How am I feeling at this moment? I mean, I have told I did a show on triggers. I mean, triggers are gonna come out, especially the way the world is right now. You know, it's designed to let you know your triggers. So you can let release the energy, you can work on all of this. And remember, we're constantly learning, we're constantly evolving. That's the point.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Yeah, yeah. And I love what you just said. Triggers actually give us an opportunity, an entry point to work with an entry point, yeah. Yeah, to heal a wound that hasn't been healed. So I would view triggers like that. I wouldn't get, you know, I wouldn't encourage getting mad at yourself. Why did that just trigger me? No, oh, that just triggered me. So I wonder what hasn't been healed.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Exactly. Yeah, and um, you know, you when I've done therapy with you, where we've done somatic work, you'll say, you'll stop me and say, What was that? I'll say, What was what? And I had just moved of this, or I had just moved of that, or I had just something had happened. Yeah, so you pay attention when you're doing somatic work, you really are watching like talk every everything.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Because the body tells the story, yeah, yeah, it really does, if you pay attention.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Oh my gosh. So here's another question, Shirley. When your memories are vague about growing up, is this how your brain coped? And the goal isn't necessarily to remember, necessarily explain that, but because you can still have trauma without memo remembering it.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Yeah, you know, sometimes when you're working with with uh when you're working with someone who's experienced trauma and doesn't have a specific memory, sometimes as you're doing the somatic work, a memory will pop in. You know, however, you don't have to remember your memories in order to heal your trauma because again, it's all stirred in the body, and the body doesn't have to relive it. No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

I think that's what important point to make is people get scared. I don't want to relive that again. Okay, you don't need to.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Yeah. Now, if you go into that, you may have to relive it in the moment while you're doing the somatic work, but you're doing your the therapist is guiding you to do things differently. You know, what would you have wanted to do if you could have done anything? And so then that activates the fight or flight, which will then be very different. So, yes, sometimes you may have to relive something, but if the therapist is a good therapist, that won't re-traumatize you. That's an important difference. However, the brain does what it needs to do to survive, and so many times when something is too um overwhelming or chaotic, the memory gets fragmented. So maybe the story will go into the unconscious, but the emotions will stay. I feel afraid all the time, and I don't know. I don't know why. Or you'll have the story and somebody will tell you the most painful story, like they're reciting a recipe, but the emotional piece got locked.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

You know, so don't worry about not remembering memories. I mean, growing up in a, you know, in an emotional desert, I hardly have any memories as a child. You just you could still work, you could still work and heal your trauma.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

Yeah, good, good, good answer there, Shirley. Yeah, okay. Here's a con uh here's a question. Soul contract. How does one begin to heal and cope when they discover as an adult that their biological father is someone they never met? Secondly, how do you connect with them across the veil if you can't recognize them? I'm working on forgiveness towards my mom. Okay, so how does one begin to heal and cope when they discover as an adult their biological father is someone they never met? I hear this more and more. Than you would imagine, Joe. Lots of family secrets. Lots of secrets going on. So we have soul contracts on the other side. We choose biologically who's going to be the father and who's going to be the mother. Now, will they be the father and mother? Biologically they will be. And they're connected to you. You would have chosen that for whatever, lots of different reasons you could have chosen this. But part of this maybe is the abandonment piece that you are needing to experience on earth at this time for your soul to grow. So when you discover as an adult that the biological person you thought was or wasn't, it's somebody else's. I mean, you know, plot twist, but it's a plot twist that was planned on the other side. So I tell you that because I want you to view this in a different way. Yeah, that's betrayal. It's it's not everything that you're going to come to earth for. But I promise you, when you pass and they're on that side, of course they will recognize you and you will recognize them. It is was a setup for this school of earth, but our natural home is on the other side. So it was a setup that way. So whatever trauma that father had, whatever trauma that you've had, it's to work through the issues of trauma and family secrets is huge. And you know who talks about we do a lot of family secrets work, Shirley, is Kirby Bonia.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Yeah. The constellation. Yeah, for generational trauma. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Absolutely. I mean, that could have gone on in other generations. And I just see this now coming out, especially with 23 and me and what's ancestor.com or whatever that is. All of these secrets. I remember somebody, I I have a very good friend who there was a duck knock on her door a few years ago, and it was a young woman there, and she said, Your husband is my father. It was not funny at the time, and it's still frankly probably not funny now. Wow. But it was took this Catholic family by surprise, I can tell you that. Um yeah, that was uh there's oh, there's so many of those stories, Shirley. But anyway, and working on forgiveness is why we come here. The soul having a human experience. You while you are alive, you want to do everything you can for compassion, for empathy, for kindness, for forgiveness. Because you don't want to end up there. There are a lot of sudden deaths going on now. You don't want to suddenly end up on that side and go, gosh darn it, I wish I had done this and this. Yeah. You want to do it now. It's up there I heard uh what what was it? Oh what I Eckhart Tulli talk about working out. He goes, you know, you you go to you're sitting on the couch and you're like wishing that you had a body that would, you know, be very strong, and yet you're sitting on the couch.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

It's the same kind of a right, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 46:50

And you know, keeping in mind, and we hear this a lot, um, but that forgiveness is not for the other person, it's for yourself, you know, and when we forgive someone, we're not saying what you did was okay, we're just forgiving, you know, the action because there's you know, certainly a lot of different facets involved, and I don't want to carry the the anger of it, you know. So you're doing it for yourself, and it doesn't mean that what the other person did was okay. So that's an important piece to remember.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

Oh, absolutely, yeah. It's it's a process for sure. Oh, here's a good one for you, Shirley. We'll call this question PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. If someone has PTSD and they're working on the feeling of the emotions that they've shut down because of the trauma, and some of those feelings seem to be blocked. What would cause the emotion to be blocked from coming up if you're trying to work on it? What can the person do to try and unblock the emotion so they can move forward?

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Yeah. Well, we can't force the unblocking of emotions, even if you're just sitting there going, okay, I'm ready to feel it. That's where, again, I mean, I hate to always bring it back to therapy, but that's when astute therapist can help by noticing different body motions, by noticing different facial expressions, what just happened, and that can start to uncover different emotions.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

You know, possibly a volcano, even.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Yeah. I mean, PTSD is or symptoms of trauma. And trauma happened in relationship with, you know, whether the relationship was present or not present, like in neglect. And so trauma is healed in relationship with someone, you know, and so that's why it's so important to you can do work on your own, but if you really want to heal, especially, you know, I think this question came to me with chronic PTSD, that that I would really seek professional help. And again, someone who works nomadically. And sometimes we become so disconnected with feelings, like I was just like a head and a body that were completely disconnected. So I had to learn emotions as if they were a foreign language. And all emotions have sensations. So sometimes I would notice a heaviness in my chest, and I would go, Oh, I notice heaviness. Maybe I'm sad, maybe it's depression. And so that's how you kind of start to learn again the language of emotion. Um, a way to kind of an entry point is imagine what someone else would feel if that if XYZ had happened to them. Would they feel angry? Would they feel sad? Would they feel pain? And then take it into your body, huh? Do I notice those emotions? And sometimes you may not notice the emotion, but you notice a shutdown. Oh, I notice kind of a shutdown in my heart area. Okay, and so that's where you start. You you work with what's there. So if there is no emotion, if the emotions are blocked, what does the block feel like? Does it feel is it inside your body? Is it outside of your body? Does it feel like a brick wall? What is what does the block feel like? That's where you would work.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

You know, yeah, yeah, very good.

unknown 50:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:11

So sure, here's a question. And this is a good one. Um, if our brains become physically rewired as well as its chemistry, for instance, when somebody is an addict, okay, so our brains can become physical rewired after they get through the addiction. Does our human brain become physically rewired when we develop our spirituality? That's a good one for you. 100%. I acknowledge it is driven by our soul, but are we still living in a human body and a human world? And that is the reason I thought there might be physical changes of sorts. Yes, and it's what the story that I told early on this evening is that I my brain changed greatly. Because what happens when you move into a spiritual alignment, if you will, you start to see things differently, things feel differently. You don't take on the stress necessarily that you did. You you have so your brain is changing. Your brain is changing, and it's actually such a calmer, you're not living in fear, you're living really in a love, and not in a oh, I just feel love and joy all the time. No, I'm very grounded into whatever is going on. But I also have an understanding of things, so yeah, the the brain changes completely. I when I was growing up, uh my brain was completely um right-brained, ADD, attention deficit disorder. I didn't have the hyperactivity, so I was here and here and here and here. But literally, through deep spirituality, meditation, all of these things, I could I think that my brain has really adjusted and is probably more bibrained, if anything, because I had a I have a good left brain now. I didn't swear to God, it was never used before. So I mean, I can follow anybody anywhere, but it it is interesting. So, yeah, our brains are constantly changing. Yeah, okay. And here's another question, Shirley. Do people with cognitive impairment or dementia still have soul connections and experience spirituality that they're not cognitively aware of? And will loved ones on the other side still be able to connect with us? Absolutely. So anybody who's going through going into the dementia situation or Alzheimer's, please don't worry, that's just part of the body, and it's part of what your soul came in to learn. Forgiveness, kindness, acceptance, patience, all of these things, good sense of humor, all of these things here. So I promise your loved ones, you will be fine on the other side as you're fine now, and you will be also connected with the your other loved ones. And surely, I think our our last question.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

Well, I mean, we've got so many, and I think we should go with if we have time to do these two. Can you define existential fatigue? I'm not depressed, nor do I have suicidal ideation. My husband died two and a half years ago. I enjoy nature, I enjoy being with my dog. Can a soul feel just tired from earthy life and existential fatigue? Are there any remedies? What's happening? Actually, I do have a question, I have an answer for that, but Shirley, you start with that one.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

Oh, wow. Well, yes. I mean, I think we touched upon it a little bit uh in a past question. I mean, it's some of it, yeah. I mean, I feel it, you know, and sometimes you're just taking in the because the world can feel so painful, especially with what we're experiencing now.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

It's a lot. You lost your husband.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

It's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. And so it's it's I think it's quite natural to just feel tired. So I would continue to, you're doing the right things. I would continue to do things that nurture your soul. And again, just like with anxiety, when we reduce anxiety, this will add a little bit in that moment. It may not change it because it's not going to do this, but in that moment, if you can find more variability, you know, moments where you feel a little less tired, moments where you notice a little bit of joy when you're petting your dog and you're really your dog and you're really feeling what the fur feels like in his the temperature of his skin and how they wag their tail when they get so happy, that kind of thing. Those moments. So I would I would encourage you to pay attention to those moments that that will help.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

And I I do want to throw something on that. To me, when I read that, it's your vital life force is down because you have it a lot. So vital life force is our spirit. It's different. Our soul, we have our soul, and then what feeds the soul is our spirit. Your spirit's down, your vitalife force is down. There are classical homeopathic remedies for that. So find a classical homeopathist. There's a great one in Los Angeles, Dr. Robert Gramlik, G-R-A-M-L-I-C-H. I send him a lot of people because I love his work. Uh but there are there are a few classically trained homeopaths that work with vinyl life force to get that back up. There's something going on there. Something definitely going on.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Yeah, I love that you said that, Kel, because yeah, there's there's a connection, there seems to be a weakened connection with life force energy.

SPEAKER_01 55:21

It's life force, yeah, absolutely. And I understandably. So for our last question, Shirley, we're gonna talk briefly, then we've got to go, but on personality traits. Somebody wrote this question. They were having lunch with a few ladies, and uh, one lady particularly dominated the conversation. I call her a talkaholic. Okay, that's hilarious, and I'm gonna use that talk. She's a tocaholic. I have never used that before. That is a great one. So thank you for that. She says, if you try to add something to the conversation, she'll talk on top of you. Oh, we all know that. If somebody asks a question, she'll answer it. She said, I've I've gently, that's the problem, gently, mentioned to her that she answered a question that was addressed to me. Her response was, yeah, I don't know why I do that. I would like some advice on how to navigate conversating, conversion with her, conversating, conversing with her. So, Cheryl, can we talk narcissists? Well, I mean, unconscious, yeah, unconscious.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

I think unconscious, not necessarily, but she's letting you know that this is who she is, and so part of it is acceptance. If there's some other things that you really enjoy about her and her friendship, to accept that this is kind of that she seems a little unconscious, and this is kind of how she is, you know, especially if you've talked to her about it.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Well, here's what I would do a little differently. I would not be so gentle about it. I would not be, I would say I would and I would do it probably once when I hire Kelly. Do you understand that I I was asking the question was for me? So hold on there, hold on, Sister Sue. I would actually do something like I would literally do that at this stage in my life. Hold on there, or I would never be around that person again. One or the other, because she may be completely unconscious. I mean, sometimes I actually had somebody say to me recently, I really did not know I was doing that. It's very recent.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

Right, right. But that actually that's a good intervention when when the woman starts to answer your question, go, wait a minute, wait a minute. She asked me that question. Let me let me let me answer it. So that can kind of that's almost like um classical conditioning. You know, you know, you're you're literally you're you're teaching someone to stop. And maybe it's a habit. Maybe they never were heard as a kid, and so now they're wanting to talk all the time, you know. We never know where it came from. Know that it came from a valid reason, however, that doesn't mean that you're gonna like it and you can do these different things.

SPEAKER_01 57:47

And part of it is also, which is great.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

Exactly, exactly, and part of it is also acceptance, and then you just go, I don't think I'll do any more lunches with the girls. Yeah, that could be an option. She left. That could be an option, or if it's a bigger group sitting more away, you know. I mean, there's different different tools that you can use, but ultimately, yeah, if it's something that is really, really bothersome, then eventually you start to see the person less and less. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 58:16

And then they learn something or not. Oh, or not. Well, Shirley, this was great. I look forward to it. Yeah, this is so fun. Right. I look forward to doing this once a month. We're gonna be answering your questions. So just put them out there for us. You can always send them to uh infokellywhite.com, or you can go to psychologyandhesoul.com and there's a whole form there to fill out, which is great. Yeah, so I look forward to seeing everybody next week. Um, Shirley, I love working with you. That was so much fun.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

Oh, I love working with you too. Yes, that was so fun. All right, goodbye, everybody. Take good care of the.